Replacement for Displacement [Archive] - Tallahassee Muscle Car Association

madderhatter

07-15-2005, 08:35 PM

I got here too late to put my two cents in between Racer and SlowLx, don't have much to say about it anyway. You have to look at the other side of the "no replacement" equation - less weight. All things being equal (HP, torque, gears, turbo, blower, etc.), the vehicle that weighs less will always win.

Anyone with a 1+ liter bike want to chime in ?

I'm sure some of the older brethren in here will remember the old "Caddy Hack" project. I'm not sure who did it (Car & Driver, MotorTrend ?) but it brought that point home.

My spin on it.

SS2win

07-16-2005, 01:10 AM

what? did something get locked again?

yeah the caddy hack proved a lot about weight. always wanted to do my own testing like that.

RACER1269

07-16-2005, 09:08 PM

big motor should win but there is factors in every equation. that is all im saying. that and WRX > 5.0 :lol:

onthegasinFL

07-16-2005, 09:33 PM

big motor should win but there is factors in every equation. that is all im saying. that and WRX > 5.0 :lol:

please come own me.

madderhatter

07-16-2005, 11:59 PM

big motor should win but there is factors in every equation. that is all im saying. that and WRX > 5.0 :lol:
With weight the item being considered, I've got a friend with a 5.0 in an 87 RX-7 that would really like to run ya. Doubt it ?

v8minus2

07-17-2005, 03:51 PM

hmm welcome to the next locked thread.

Supradedupra

07-31-2005, 03:11 PM

i missed the last locked thread.....

but I think the only replacement for displacement would be forced induction (i.e- nitrous, supercharger, turbo)

theoretically, at 14 psi of boost, my car is outputting 6.0 liters of displaced air from a 3.0 liter engine

Asside from driver skill, power to weight ratio will decide who wins a race, along with when that power comes along.

with a 6.0 liter engine n/a the engine will make horsepower right away.... for me, I have to take into effect turbo lag when the 14 psi hits to give me those 6.0 liters of air.....

Azn Kenny

07-31-2005, 03:34 PM

Nitrous is not FI, FYI.

Supradedupra

07-31-2005, 04:02 PM

why not?... you are forcing more oxygen into the engine to burn more fuel....

edit:

"Forced Induction" is the process of using a mechanical system to "force" more air into an engine. This includes Superchargers, Turbochargers, Nitrious systems, and other mechanical systems, but not hood scoops which just direct outside air into the engine. Both Superchargers and Turbos use a compressor to "force" air into the engine, making it more dense (i.e. more oxygen). When a proportionately larger amount of fuel is added to the denser air charge, the mixture creates a much larger explosion and thus more power from the engine. Nitrous Oxide Systems ("NOS") works by directly injecting Nitrous Oxide (NO2) into the engine. The higher concentration of oxygen found in NO2 (compared to air) and more fuel leads to the same effect as Superchargers and Turbos. Although the basic concepts are similar, each differs in their design and execution.

Azn Kenny

07-31-2005, 04:10 PM

N2O is chemical injection, it's not forcing air into the cylinders.

Azn Kenny

07-31-2005, 04:17 PM

And Elliot, you're using a source that spells "nitrious" with an extra i and denotes it is NO2, when it should be N2O. That's why this conversation is over. I win.

Tally TransAm

07-31-2005, 04:18 PM

turbo or supercharging is FI

turbo, supercharging, or N20 is PA

Supradedupra

07-31-2005, 04:45 PM

it is forcing air into the engine.... that source was musclecarclub.com

slmdLS1

07-31-2005, 04:48 PM

it is forcing air into the engine.... that source was musclecarclub.com

were gonna need tyler to confirm but isnt air ("O2") and nitrous a chemical compound of liquid nitrous(N20)?

Duck

07-31-2005, 07:35 PM

Yeah, oxygen is "O2". Nitrous oxide is N2O. It decomposes to nitrogen and oxygen when heated.

It also makes me laugh uncontrollably when I inhale it.

madderhatter

07-31-2005, 07:56 PM

Yeah, oxygen is "O2". Nitrous oxide is N2O. It decomposes to nitrogen and oxygen when heated.

It also makes me laugh uncontrollably when I inhale it.
Hell yeah, hit it ! :lol:

onthegasinFL

08-01-2005, 01:25 AM

big motor should win but there is factors in every equation. that is all im saying. that and WRX > 5.0

please come own me.

+1

v8minus2

08-01-2005, 09:03 AM

nitrous is pulled into the engine via cylinder vacume.

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 11:57 AM

nitrous is pulled into the engine via cylinder vacume.
some of the stuff you ppl say ....... 1st N2O is one nitrogen molecule and 2 oxygen molecules. these are broken down around 550*. the nitrogen is then expelled out the exhuast and the 2 oxygen molecules are used for more power.

and it isnt drawn into the motor its pushed by the 900 - 1200 psi of bottle pressure you have.

i agree with superduper too it is forced induction, but he already supplied a link for that.

these lill myths people have about nitrous is the reason it gets a bad name. shit is good.

.02 :lol:

slowLX

08-01-2005, 12:17 PM

1st N2O is one nitrogen molecule and 2 oxygen molecules. :did you ever take chemistry? Nitrous Oxide is N2O = 2 nitogen and 1 oxygen (btw Nitrous the word means 2-nitrogen and oxide means 1-oxygen)...... now the oxygen combo your motor needs is O2 which is still made because there are spare oxygens from other nitrous oxide molecules that broke up.

once again GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

Greg Kulbick

08-01-2005, 12:18 PM

Die.

Nitrous is not forced into the engine. Its injected into the intake track and sucked into the engine by the vacuum. If the engine wasn't running, the mist would simply leave the nozzle and puddle where ever it happened to come to rest. On a forced induction motor, such as supercharged or turbocharged, if somehow the engine weren't running but the impeller for each mechanism respectively were spinning, it would still create boost with even the static atmosphere, allbeit a small amount.

v8minus2

08-01-2005, 12:18 PM

i thought bottle pressure was for mixture and atomization. and that once nitous is released into the intake manifold that it will is pulled into the engine from vacume that the piston creates?

Greg Kulbick

08-01-2005, 12:19 PM

i thought bottle pressure was for mixture and atomization. and that once nitous is released into the intake manifold that it will is pulled into the engine from vacume that the piston creates?

Exactly. Write that on your dick with slow drying ink and mushroom stamp it on Racer's forehead so he can see it when he looks in the mirror.

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 12:54 PM

slowLX

08-01-2005, 12:57 PM

lol my bad i did get the mix backwards ...... leave the engine off ( ie no vacume) and see if it isnt forced into the engine. after you test that theory go ahead and crank it up to. :lol:how's it going to get past the throttle body?

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 12:58 PM

how's it going to get past the throttle body?put your foot on that pedal to the right :shrug:

tibster

08-01-2005, 01:07 PM

Greg Kulbick

08-01-2005, 01:15 PM

btw i still went faster than you will ever dream of on NAWS so write that on you dick :lol: 9.63 to be exact, im sure you heard :lol:

Yeah, we've heard, a billion times. You went 9's in a car you don't even have anymore, but bring up more than your current car. We were all tired of hearing about it after like the 3rd time you brought it up in the middle of a thread it had no relevance in.

slowLX

08-01-2005, 01:15 PM

put your foot on that pedal to the right :shrug:i thought the car was off? why would you mash the gas with the car off? i think if the car was off the nitrous would "puddle where ever it happened to come to rest".....outside of the throttle body

SS2win

08-01-2005, 01:23 PM

N<sub>2</sub>O = Nitrous Oxide = Di-Nitrogen Oxide = two nitrogen molecules to one oxygen molecule. Not forced induction per say but it does add oxygen to the mixture so in a way could be confused as forced induction.

Forced Induction INCREASES displacement by forcing a larger volume of air into the engine that it would otherwise be capable of inhaling. For maximum power I would take a Vtec with a GT35R over a N/A 350 chevy, assuming they are built right, forged everything, etc., but for LONGEVITY I would stay with the 350 cause the brighter candle burns twice as fast. Even if a turbo is easier on parts a small engine doing all that work is gonna go boom sooner.

The real solution for longevity is to moderately turbo a strong v6 or v8. just be sure you have a decent tune and you have massive hp on demand as well as longevity.

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 01:54 PM

the brighter candle burns twice as fast.
unless its a HID candle :lol:

pendrgn

08-01-2005, 02:21 PM

some of the stuff you ppl say ....... 1st N2O is one nitrogen molecule and 2 oxygen molecules. these are broken down around 550*. the nitrogen is then expelled out the exhuast and the 2 oxygen molecules are used for more power.

and it isnt drawn into the motor its pushed by the 900 - 1200 psi of bottle pressure you have.

i agree with superduper too it is forced induction, but he already supplied a link for that.

these lill myths people have about nitrous is the reason it gets a bad name. shit is good.

.02 :lol:
you are an idiot. the bottle is not stored under pressure to force it in anything, it freely flows in the engine, no force needed... it is under pressure becuase it is stored as a liquid in the bottle.. the evaporation of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake temperature. This results in a smaller, denser charge, and can reduce detonation, as well as increase power available to the engine. so not only is there more O2, there is a cooler temp...

got it...

pendrgn

08-01-2005, 02:25 PM

lol my bad i did get the mix backwards ...... leave the engine off ( ie no vacume) and see if it isnt forced into the engine. after you test that theory go ahead and crank it up to. :lol:

btw i still went faster than you will ever dream of on NAWS so write that on you dick :lol: 9.63 to be exact, im sure you heard :lol:
with my 79 vette off, I could push the gas pedal and flood the engine with gas, that is NOT forced, that is just dumping gas, like you dump N2O...

nothing about it is forced, a turbo forces air in to the chamber... so more gets in then normal...

v8minus2

08-01-2005, 02:45 PM

see racer still is the most popular guy on here. look how many people type stuff about him.

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 03:28 PM

you are an idiot. the bottle is not stored under pressure to force it in anything, it freely flows in the engine, no force needed... it is under pressure becuase it is stored as a liquid in the bottle.. the evaporation of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake temperature. This results in a smaller, denser charge, and can reduce detonation, as well as increase power available to the engine. so not only is there more O2, there is a cooler temp...

got it...
im not saying its the only reason it is under pressure i only said that at 900-1200 psi it wil lbe forced into the motor. so ur the idiot and quit putting words into my mouth. :roll:

TurboL67

08-01-2005, 03:37 PM

"it's illegal in 9 countries"

"60 percent of the time, it works every time"

RACER1269

08-01-2005, 04:50 PM

"it's illegal in 9 countries"

"60 percent of the time, it works every time"
huh? :lol:

brandboZ28

08-01-2005, 05:23 PM

"it's illegal in 9 countries"

"60 percent of the time, it works every time"
"Smells like BigFoots dick!"

pendrgn

08-01-2005, 08:29 PM

im not saying its the only reason it is under pressure i only said that at 900-1200 psi it wil lbe forced into the motor. so ur the idiot and quit putting words into my mouth. :roll:
it is not forced in even under pressure... whatever

96s10

08-01-2005, 10:43 PM

"Smells like BigFoots dick!"

"don't act like you're not impressed!"

coonbottom

08-02-2005, 07:10 AM

it is not forced in even under pressure... whatever

Whenever the N20 is released into the manifold it has to push the surronding air out of its way. Some of that air might be pushed into the engine. It might only be at .000000001 psi but it is still forcing some of the expanding air into the engine.
I still wouldnt call it FI though.

Greg Kulbick

08-02-2005, 07:56 AM

Whenever the N20 is released into the manifold it has to push the surronding air out of its way. Some of that air might be pushed into the engine. It might only be at .000000001 psi but it is still forcing some of the expanding air into the engine.
I still wouldnt call it FI though.

Stop. Just stop.

cary00silve

08-02-2005, 08:06 AM

big motor should win but there is factors in every equation. that is all im saying. that and WRX > 5.0 :lol:
wow, you're comparing your car to something that has technology from 20 years ago. Big Man...

Greg Kulbick

08-02-2005, 08:11 AM

You all have no idea as to the passion I hate you all with. The flames would burn for eternity, lasting far after we've all left this place and the earth has imploded into itself. Its a wonder I haven't killed any of you.

Azn Kenny

08-02-2005, 09:20 AM

Snow

08-02-2005, 09:47 AM

I think *everyone* should be required to take Physics for Science Majors...

RACER1269

08-02-2005, 09:59 AM

wow, you're comparing your car to something that has technology from 20 years ago. Big Man...
the technology that my car has , has been around since the 70s atleast ....turbos are nothing new :shrug: . the age of something is a weak arguing point. my mustang ran 9.60s consistantly and it was old ....so yeah "big man" ..... it was on that NAWS too. :lol:

Snow

08-02-2005, 10:05 AM

the technology that my car has , has been around since the 70s atleast ....turbos are nothing new :shrug: . the age of something is a weak arguing point. my mustang ran 9.60s consistantly and it was old ....so yeah "big man" ..... it was on that NAWS too. :lol:

I'd like to see this Mustang run 9.60 quarter miles, you going to the track soon?

Greg Kulbick

08-02-2005, 10:22 AM

I'd like to see this Mustang run 9.60 quarter miles, you going to the track soon?

He hasn't even had the car for several years. He just feels the need to bring it up repeatedly because his current car is slow and he thinks it'll impress us.

Kinson Cook, Jr

08-02-2005, 10:47 AM

PLEASE, someone make this madness go away.

SS2win

08-02-2005, 11:33 AM

what he said...

RACER1269

08-02-2005, 11:34 AM

I'd like to see this Mustang run 9.60 quarter miles, you going to the track soon?
pay attention to the key words "ran" and "was" they show past tense and the guy that had it last totaled it out few months ago. i had my time slip up but they made a new rule that the car has to be presently in your possession. i mght bullshit bout some things but i dont bullshit about my times and accomplishments . 8)

cary00silve

08-02-2005, 12:04 PM

the technology that my car has , has been around since the 70s atleast ....turbos are nothing new :shrug: . the age of something is a weak arguing point. my mustang ran 9.60s consistantly and it was old ....so yeah "big man" ..... it was on that NAWS too. :lol:
If you think your car is built on 1970's technology, then you sir are more of an idiot than I could have ever fathomed.

coonbottom

08-02-2005, 12:41 PM

If you think your car is built on 1970's technology, then you sir are more of an idiot than I could have ever fathomed.
Define "technology" in this case.
The internal combustion engine, which has been around well before the 1970's, is still the same 'technology' that pretty much all gasers are in one way or another based on.

...and now i will stop.