Ford on the war path again sigh... [Archive] - Tallahassee Muscle Car Association

12-09-2008, 09:21 PM

e-mail I just got....

Dear Member,

I appologize for this email. I don't normally email the members but this is an emergency.

Today, (December 9, 2008) I received a letter from the law offices of Howard, Phillips & Andersen that represent the Ford Motor Company. Ford is forcing us to surrender the name 'therangerstation.com' to them and stop using it. Ford states that using the name 'Ranger' when used in reference to the Ford Ranger is a trademark violation. In addition they are wanting me to pay them $5,000.

As you may know, The Ranger Station has been around for the past 10 years and has been a valuable resource to Ranger enthusiasts.

If Ford does this to us, where will they stop?

I have 10-days to surrender the name and pay them $5,000. I'm asking that you contact Ford online and ask them to reconsider making us change our name and prohibiting us from using the word 'Ranger'.

You can contact them at:

https://secure.ford.com/footer/contact-ford/contact-us-email?contactMainTopic=PublicAffairs

a sample of what one of the members wrote is:

"To whom it may concern:

I am writing concerning your recent legal attacks on various "fan" websites for vehicles such as the Mustang and Ranger. I am insulted by this careless misuse of our legal system and am reconsidering any further vehicle purchases from your company until you cease and desist from any further legal action concerning this subject. I have been a Ford owner for many years and I had hoped to stay that way. These attacks are morally wrong since they are geared towards your customers, and do not instill the least bit of confidence in your brand. For the sake of your business, I ask you to please reconsider immediately.

Thank you."

Thank you for your support and I applogize for this email.

Jim Oaks
TheRangerStation.com

12-09-2008, 09:22 PM

also this...

http://www.mustangevolution.com/200812031451/

Kocky Products (http://www.kockyproducts.com/), a company that produces Hot Rod themed shirts with various catchy phrases, has been pushed out of business by Ford due to their claim that they hold copyright to the images of the Ford Mustangs that are printed on various Ford t-shirts that they sell. The images of the Mustangs are images submitted by Mustang owners of their cars and not of official images released by Ford. The owner of Kocky Products, Keith Bishop, stated that when they started the business they sought legal advice and were told that Ford does not own the right to pictures of Mustangs taken by their owners. They went on this advice and up until now received no trouble from Ford. However, a collection firm, as he calls them, claiming to represent Ford is complaining that those images of the Mustangs that were submitted by customers violate their copyright because you can see various trademarks such as the running pony and blue oval on the cars. Now they face lawyer fees of up to $38,000 dollars to fight this with no guarantee of a win.
This won’t be the first time that Ford has threatened lawsuits on businesses using their names. American Muscle (http://www.americanmuscle.com/) was forced to change their name from MustangParts.com to it’s current name in order to stay in business because of the use of ‘Mustang’ in their domain name. Most recently though, the Black Mustang Club (http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42820) was threatened with legal action due to their Ford Mustang calendars that consisted of pictures of their members Ford Mustangs. They ended up being given permission by Ford to produce the calendar.
Kocky Products is set to go out of business by the end of January but some shirts are already sold out due to a buying frenzy, So if you were putting off getting a t-shirt from Kocky Products you should head over there now and see what they have left.

BreBar21

12-09-2008, 10:18 PM

Always a good move to attack the people that support your brand.

SS2win

12-09-2008, 10:20 PM

<---- *Former Ford Man*

towelie

12-09-2008, 10:25 PM

Dont they realize they are pissing off the very same people that like there product. Guess they dont want to sell cars and are happy with going out of business.

I dont get why they are trying to get 5k form the website owner arent they getting enough from the Government.

4348rd

12-09-2008, 10:31 PM

that sucks

slmdLS1

12-09-2008, 10:34 PM

these are the geniuses asking for billions in the form of a bailout?

pendrgn

12-09-2008, 11:48 PM

e-mail I just got....

that is crazy about the ranger site name, unless that forum site is somehow making a product or money on the name, I dont see how Ford can touch them... most likely Ford is just hoping they cave in from the threat.

KattWoman01

12-10-2008, 06:28 AM

Yes the big three asked for bailout money. But it seems that Ford is gonna be the last of the three to get their money. So this is probably one of the first moves that Ford will make. Sit back and watch.

go_speed_go

12-10-2008, 08:01 AM

Wow!
I couldn't possibly imagine the number of raging homos that would be at the steps of Mazda North America in Irvine, CA if that ever happened to Miata.net

hungryjack

12-10-2008, 09:10 AM

wow, just wow.

Jimbo3087

12-10-2008, 09:18 AM

Just a thought... Talk to attorney Jeff from Tally Imports, he has got my brother out of a lot of shit.. Hes fairly cheap.. That sucks though..

Sandy H.

12-10-2008, 10:10 AM

68stang289

12-10-2008, 11:45 AM

That is just retarded. How does Ford not understand that the only reason their cars like the Mustang and Ranger are popular are because of the people buying them? I've been a Ford guy for a long time but I won't be buying another one anytime soon. My GT has been in the shop so many times that all the dealer paperwork wouldn't fit in the little binder thing they give you in the glove box. Way to go Ford, lets piss away some more customers we really can't afford to lose.

stepintoliquid

12-10-2008, 12:42 PM

what a smart way to spend their money...... on lawyers to bully their loyal customers.....

pendrgn

12-10-2008, 02:18 PM

Ford went after the Black Mustang Club a while back over a calender they were about to publish. Ford claimed they owned all the pictures of the members cars because they built them. ROFL! They eventually backed off due to negative press.

http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402

it sucks, as I mentioned earlier, and going after a forum or non business is just wrong on so many levels. But Black Mustang Club's situation was different, they were going to sell the calendar to the public, and you just cant do that. It is true for all trademarks. I cant print a picture of Mickey Mouse on a shirt and sell them to the public, no more than I can take a picture of a mustang and put it on a shirt and sell them to the public. The key here is sell. I can put both on shirts and give them to my friends for xmas, nothing illegal about that :)

It is basically a product placement ad. Since you are selling it and it has a Ford in it, it is therefore a free ad for Ford, but Ford doesnt like the way you made their product, your car, look in the picture, maybe you put a big ricer wing on it..hehe...

there are hundreds of examples online about these type of suites, my favorite recent one is this one...
http://www.heroes-tv.com/modules/news/article-665.html

to sum up for those not wanting to click.

character sticks her hand in a kitchen-sink InSinkErator and pulls it out mangled and bloodied.

since in the shot you could see the brand name on the drain that she stuck her hand down, the company thought it made their product look bad, and I am sure NBC Heroes owned that sink :)

Just another view on it. Going after a forum for its name though, that is :bs:. Some companies are annoying like that though, like Monster Cables, they went after Monsters.com the job site for using Monster in there name! like the companies have anything in common that would make you confuse them. go to monster.com and look at the bottom of the page, the settlement required them to put a link to monster cable! Obviously Ford is following their example.

sstony

12-10-2008, 04:31 PM

holy shits thats gay

Benjamin

12-10-2008, 05:35 PM

we had that problem over on DieselBombers.com. we were going to put together a calendar with members trucks, chevy and ford said they owned the rights to the pictures of the trucks, Dodge on the other hand didn't have a problem. since we are a multi-branded site we didn't want to sell a dodge only calendar to benefit the site and it's members....

Sandy H.

12-10-2008, 05:44 PM

it sucks, as I mentioned earlier, and going after a forum or non business is just wrong on so many levels. But Black Mustang Club's situation was different, they were going to sell the calendar to the public, and you just cant do that. It is true for all trademarks. I cant print a picture of Mickey Mouse on a shirt and sell them to the public, no more than I can take a picture of a mustang and put it on a shirt and sell them to the public. The key here is sell. I can put both on shirts and give them to my friends for xmas, nothing illegal about that :)

It is basically a product placement ad. Since you are selling it and it has a Ford in it, it is therefore a free ad for Ford, but Ford doesnt like the way you made their product, your car, look in the picture, maybe you put a big ricer wing on it..hehe...

I agree that the situation with BMC was different than going after a forum name but not something that doesn't happen all the time. How many Mustang based magazines have sold calenders with Mustangs in them? For that matter how many Mustang based magazines sell magazines with pictures of Mustangs in them? Most of them have a picture or two with some skanky looking slut draped all over them. My argument is after Ford sold my car to me it is MINE to do with what I want. They no more have the right to tell me I can't take pictures of it and sell them than they do to tell me I can't put a ricer wing on it if I want to. Anyway the point I was making about the BMC issue is Ford eventually backed off and allowed them to do what they set out to do.

Sandy H.

12-10-2008, 06:42 PM

The only way they will get the message is if they get inundated with mail from pissed off owners.

I just clicked on the link on page one and submitted the following comments. I had to condense to 1000 or less characters. Guess they don't really want to hear ALL your comments.

"What's this I'm reading about your legal eagles going after Ford enthusiasts web sites and businesses AGAIN? Have you lost your ever-loving minds? These people are giving you FREE advertising and promoting your products and you are threatening them with lawsuits and telling them you own the rights to all pictures of your customers' cars. You should be paying them for all this advertising and instead you are harassing them and trying to make them go away.

When I bought my vehicles they became mine to do with what I want. If I want to take pictures of them and give those pictures away or sell them I can do it. If you put your logo on it and it gets caught in my pictures then tough. I bought the vehicles and that includes any logos you placed on them. If that isn't the case then you better start buying them back.

I currently own two Fords, a Mazda, and a Volvo. If you keep this kind of disregard up for Ford enthusiasts I will trade all my vehicles for Toyotas and BMWs."

TurboStutr

12-10-2008, 08:16 PM

Wow, that's just sad.

Can they split the $5k evenly and have each member pay his/her portion? Of course I would suggest that everyone pay....in pennies.

12-10-2008, 08:54 PM

resolution at the Ranger Station

Our (my) Agreement With Ford (remedy)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A while back I had started making decals such as the old FORD tailgate letters, and offering some other decals for Ranger enthusiasts such as the Ranger windshield banner with the Ford logos on each side of it.

Although it was intended to be used as a way to keep The Ranger Station up and running and not a method of becoming independently wealthy...it was vilolating Fords trademarks.

I have talked to Scott Monty from Ford Motor Company and have agreed to:

1) Stop selling the decals since I do not have a trademark license to sell

2) Agree that the 'Ranger' is a product of Ford.

3) Not display any ads on The Ranger Station that would promote a competitor (Example: Banner ad for the new Chevy Colorado, etc)

4) Not use the site to make disparaging comments about Ford (AKA - Anti Ford Site)

5) Not turn The Ranger Station name over to anyone else.

I believe that's about it. I'm waiting from a letter from their attorney.

In return, Ford will allow us to keep The Ranger Station name and will not require that I pay the $5000.00 that the attorneys were asking for.

Scott went on to tell me that they recognize and support their fan websites and I would suggest that any other website owner/administrator reading this will be OK if they judge themselves on the items I had listed above. If you have ad banners you may want to make sure you have Fords competition filtered out.

I would like to say thanks to those that emailed Ford and spread the word. The attention and support from other enthusiats greatly helped in getting this resolved quickly.

I would ask that anyone who has posted about this on another website link the discussions here and ask that the moderator on that site lock the topic.

I also want to thank the other site owners for their support.

pendrgn

12-10-2008, 08:57 PM

4) Not use the site to make disparaging comments about Ford (AKA - Anti Ford Site)

isnt that illegal? 1st amendment and all :) of course they just meanthe people running it, and not posting, but still....lol...

matt81

12-11-2008, 12:33 AM

Apparently the overwhelming quantity of comments that Ford received regarding this issue has caused them to respond and settle very quickly. This discussion spread like wild fire thoughout the internet. Here is a post from the owner of the web site in question regarding the agreement...

"Our (my) Agreement With Ford (remedy)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A while back I had started making decals such as the old FORD tailgate letters, and offering some other decals for Ranger enthusiasts such as the Ranger windshield banner with the Ford logos on each side of it.

Although it was intended to be used as a way to keep The Ranger Station up and running and not a method of becoming independently wealthy...it was vilolating Fords trademarks.

I have talked to Scott Monty from Ford Motor Company and have agreed to:

1) Stop selling the decals since I do not have a trademark license to sell

2) Agree that the 'Ranger' is a product of Ford.

3) Not display any ads on The Ranger Station that would promote a competitor (Example: Banner ad for the new Chevy Colorado, etc)

4) Not use the site to make disparaging comments about Ford (AKA - Anti Ford Site)

5) Not turn The Ranger Station name over to anyone else.

I believe that's about it. I'm waiting from a letter from their attorney.

In return, Ford will allow us to keep The Ranger Station name and will not require that I pay the $5000.00 that the attorneys were asking for.

Scott went on to tell me that they recognize and support their fan websites and I would suggest that any other website owner/administrator reading this will be OK if they judge themselves on the items I had listed above. If you have ad banners you may want to make sure you have Fords competition filtered out.

I would like to say thanks to those that emailed Ford and spread the word. The attention and support from other enthusiats greatly helped in getting this resolved quickly.

I would ask that anyone who has posted about this on another website link the discussions here and ask that the moderator on that site lock the topic.

I also want to thank the other site owners for their support."

matt81

12-11-2008, 12:34 AM

after i pasted it i saw it was already on here.....sorry

hungryjack

12-11-2008, 09:05 AM

go_speed_go

12-11-2008, 10:49 AM

This whole taking pictures and selling them as a trade mark infringement is crap.

Here is a quick (kinda) story:..

That's a good point.
How does Brendy Priddy (http://www.brendapriddyandcompany.com/) even exist if this is the way the law works?

Slow ET

12-11-2008, 11:55 AM

hey tony.... what was this site called before it became TMCA? :lol:

12-11-2008, 12:01 PM

hey tony.... what was this site called before it became TMCA? :lol:

uh........I dont remember what I first called it lol. That was what 6 years ago now, dang.

Tony

pendrgn

12-11-2008, 12:51 PM

That's a good point.
How does Brendy Priddy (http://www.brendapriddyandcompany.com/) even exist if this is the way the law works?

He is the photographer. most lawsuits are filed against the person who uses a photograph rather than against the photographer. Ford didnt go after the people that photo'd their cars for the calendar, but after the company that used the photos to make a product. :)

pendrgn

12-11-2008, 01:05 PM

This whole taking pictures and selling them as a trade mark infringement is crap.

Here is a quick (kinda) story:

Friend (attorney), was in some state at some park. While there, Ferrari was there shooting a commercial for the then super secret 599. Well, he stopped and started to take a TON of pictures. The Ferrari people tried to stop them, and as the police were there, he told them that it was a public park, on a public road, in America and basically he could take pictures of what he wanted and do what he wanted. Police said he had the right. He then proceded to sell said pictures to a few mags and online sites.

If all this trademark crap was true, he and all these companies would be in trouble.

I would just make a calendar of "members" and put there cars in behind them. Then your not promoting the cars, there just there by chance.

Just my 2 cents.

From what I understand, if someone takes a copyright anything to a public park where is can be seen by anyone, you can take pictures all you want. so you can also publish and commercialize the photograph without infringing copyright.

I unfortunately had a website that dealt with DnD and copyright material and got threaten from Wizards of the Coast. So I learned alot from that experience. Nothing scarier than a letter from a lawyer like that.

go_speed_go

12-11-2008, 01:42 PM

He is the photographer. most lawsuits are filed against the person who uses a photograph rather than against the photographer. Ford didnt go after the people that photo'd their cars for the calendar, but after the company that used the photos to make a product. :)
The Priddy website
This site is primarily for magazine and e-zine editors.
Are you looking for the perfect scoop photo for your publication? The hottest news tidbits in the automotive industry? Look no further! We can supply with you latest "spy" photos from around the world!

That sounds to me like they're selling photos, but maybe I'm missing the technicality to what can and can't be done. If they're not liable, what about all the magazines that print them?
They even have a link at the bottom of the page to cafepress where you can buy t-shirts, etc of some of their 'spy photos'.

Sandy H.

12-11-2008, 09:49 PM

Actually I think when BMC had trouble with Ford it was because they were having cafepress do the calendar. When Ford backed off they had to have another printer do the calendar. Ford let them do the calendar but they wouldn't allow it to be done by cafepress.

The whole thing is ludicrous! If I'm building and selling a thing-a-ma-jig and some company decides to sell something that promotes my product why would I harass them. I'd be like HELL YEAH, PRINT THEM SUCKERS!

pendrgn

12-12-2008, 08:18 AM

The Priddy website
That sounds to me like they're selling photos, but maybe I'm missing the technicality to what can and can't be done. If they're not liable, what about all the magazines that print them?
They even have a link at the bottom of the page to cafepress where you can buy t-shirts, etc of some of their 'spy photos'.

I am not an expert, but from my understanding they are selling their work to get the photo to companies that are using it for writing articles or reviews, you can use copyrighted material for that. I can take a picture of a Mustang and write an article on how they suck, and publish it without having to get rights. :)

besides, I think originally in this post we were talking about trademark of the mustang not copyright of the photos. So this really doesn't matter.

Unlike copyright law, trademark law as such does not restrict the use of a trademark in a photograph. What trademark law does forbid is using a trademark in a way that can cause confusion regarding the affiliation of the trademark owner to the image. If consumers are likely to mistakenly believe that a photograph was sponsored by the trademark owner, then there may be trademark infringement.

Example: Printing a photograph containing the Nike trademark on sportswear could result in trademark infringement. In fact, by such use it would be assumed that you are trying to appropriate some of the goodwill associated with the Nike trademark. Consumers will presumably think that the fabrics are affiliated with the Nike trademark.

So by printing a calendar of Ford Mustangs with photos of the the Mustangs as the main point, which is a trademark of Ford, Ford obviously felt they were making money off of their goodwill...lol... associated with the Mustang trademark. I am only assuming here, maybe Ford was just being an asshat. either is possible.

Either way also it sucks, maybe they could have gotten around it all if they didnt sell the calendars, but rather gave them away for a donation :) maybe we could do that on our site!

Slow ET

12-12-2008, 09:50 AM

uh........I dont remember what I first called it lol. That was what 6 years ago now, dang.

Tony

wasnt it blownstangs? Ford would have been all over the use of 'stangs'

12-12-2008, 10:08 AM

wasnt it blownstangs? Ford would have been all over the use of 'stangs'

Blownstangs is still my personal website, I highly doubt Ford could of done anything about the use of stangs.

DustnF

12-12-2008, 10:21 AM

Yeah...could have always told them it was your beastiality site.

pendrgn

12-12-2008, 12:27 PM

wasnt it blownstangs? Ford would have been all over the use of 'stangs'

do they call their own cars stangs? lol... This must be how Ford is the only of the big 3 not filing for chapter 13, or 11, or whatever one files for.

TurboStutr

12-12-2008, 02:49 PM

Yeah...could have always told them it was your beastiality site.It's inter-species erotica, fucko.

go_speed_go

12-19-2008, 12:06 PM

I was in Mazda today for service and used the PC in their wait area.
They have links on main the interface to miata.net, rx8 & 3 forums along with a link to Overboost.com

What a concept - leveraging pre-existing no-cost services to benefit your customers instead of using a pack of lawyers to drive those no-cost services out of existance.

12-19-2008, 12:16 PM

Yeah...could have always told them it was your beastiality site.

lol, yup. When I was single and checking out those online dating sites. I sent a link to a girl that had a stang. I made sure to explain it wasn't a porn site or something lol.

cgrant26

12-21-2008, 01:51 PM

Just chiming in my $.02.

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express but from my limited understanding, this is whats going on here. Very few people realize that for a company to maintain a copyright, they have to protect it. If a company allows that copyright to be violated repeatedly and it can be proved they allowed it to happen, it sets a precident and thus nullifies the copyright. Legally, a company cannot be selective in copyright enforcement. They have to either enforce it against every known violation or give express written permission for use of the material in question. Its a legal slippery slope in that no company could possibly be aware of every violation but if a precident gets set of non-enforcement, it opens the door to all kinds of issues. Companies like Ford employ firms to protect their copyrights and give them limited power of attorney to do so. I'm betting it was a firm acting on Fords behalf that kicked this off and the end result was Ford doing some damage control and coming up with the compromise posted above.